The Interloper with Adam Goff

Kumar

So Adam has made an art of this, but then also a science of it as he expands both a team that's doing this with him, but also a growing set of use of AI tools and other things.

So I think like, how do you, Adam, is closest to a systematic process for how do you find big ideas? And it'll be really exciting to chat with them. 00:01:46.760 — Origin Story All right everybody today we've got Adam Goff joining us on Tacit Knowledge. First thing we always start out with is a little bit of like the hero's journey - which is like Adam Goff today versus. Like what - Is there like a moment on your, like, journey that you like, look back to? That feels like a hinge moment. You know, where you were like, that got me sort of thinking in the right direction or on the on the path, or got me sort of nerding out into the right topics. Do you have do you have a thing that you're like, you go back to is like, that made a big difference?

Adam

I think I've been extremely lucky in my career to pretty universally work for incredible people. Um, and I think the learning from watching them operate, I'm thinking here from, uh, being in on the early days of ClearPath Foundation and working with, you know, Jay Faison and Rich Powell and the founding team there when I was pretty early in my career. And there's just so much that you pick up, I remember being a little bit scolded on like, sending too many emails and not making calls. You can just pick up the phone and call people. It's like, you know, kind of a generational difference. And, um, so I think watching and being part of founding that effort, you just learn a ton about policy and advocacy and what things in the world you can manipulate or not.

Kumar

For that first thing, were you like coming out of school with a certain background?

Adam

I had studied energy and climate in, uh, in school and wanted to work on the policy advocacy side of things and came in. And you don't actually you learn a lot of content knowledge and uh, but the actual like, nuts and bolts of how to work with policymakers, what think tanks and decision makers in DC actually need and like how policy happens and doesn't happen. Like you just come in pretty, pretty green.

Kumar

Did you have this insight about working with amazing people? And a lot of a lot of life is about apprenticing with the right people. Or did you stumble into it?

Adam

No, I just got lucky. I feel like this is the - especially like in your first couple working in jobs, like how important it is the people you work closely with more so than like the role or the org. Like obviously you need to do both. You both want to be working on a problem that is the kind of problem you're well suited for and believe in. Um, I think it'd be a really hard decision if you were like, here's this problem that you're well suited for. You believe in it and you think you can move on it, and the team is not you're not going to learn from them. You're not going to work well with them or like, this thing doesn't matter at all. But the team's amazing.

That's actually kind of a hard choice because, you know, so much changes over the course of any project. Uh, like I have. I shared your impulse about on team a little bit, I think I didn't know that in the beginning. I think I just kind of got lucky that my my first couple of jobs, I worked with incredible people who were both incredible operators and kind of served as mentors and helped, uh, give me a fast path to learning.

Kumar

Yeah. So just on that, because I often give the same advice around, like, find amazing people to work for. Is there like a. Yeah. Is there a way that you, um, noticed as you were doing it that you were sort of you had sort of lucked into this, or only later on once you realized, oh, your modal experience is way out of the distribution of like, how other people were having their early career.

Adam

I think you don't realize during, uh, and then afterwards you're like, wow, ClearPath is a phenomenally effective organization. Like, I think you don't quite realize that you are in like, a pocket of excellence. Uh, if you start there. And so you realize that after. 00:05:40.940 — The Pitch

Kumar

So next thing I want to cover is, um - and I got this idea from you. And so now it's a feature of the podcast. So you should you should get credit. So, um, we call it The Pitch, which is, I say this to everybody, You know, you're at a dinner party. You're visiting the Bay area. You could bump into a donor, somebody who could help you. They could write a check or something else. And they say, oh, tell me a little bit about your work. Tell me something interesting. You got that? 90s. What do you pitch them? What's an idea that is animating you right now? That would be your pitch.

Adam

Um. Oh. Let's see. Do they? I guess cardiovascular disease. You've. You've heard various versions of this pitch from me,

Kumar

I have.

Adam

But if I was, I think I would pitch something on cardiovascular disease and food and nutrition. Um, so I say the most likely thing to kill you or any of us in this room is cardiovascular disease. It's over a quarter of all deaths. And something has blown my mind in the last year is there are actually a lot of really cheap ways to reduce cardiovascular disease that just don't get the amount of attention as infectious diseases or novel advances in science.

Um, things like making salt better. Just like having the right mix of minerals and salt. Or we can actually - we've bred crops for a yield. We haven't bread them to be more nutritious. So they've actually got less nutritious over time. We know how to do it. They're just like there is no market for us. And so there's a bunch of really easy stuff we can do to attack the single largest cause of death.

These are things that pull on areas where we know philanthropy works. We know philanthropy can fortify salt. We know philanthropy can help fund crop breeding. We just haven't taken this, like, proven and not that expensive toolkit and applied it to the single largest cause of death. And some of this is that there used to be larger causes of death, and we made progress on them with vaccines. So I think that's the pitch. The pitch I would give right now and probably give 2 or 3 hooks into it of seeing if they're interested on the like, food fortification side, on plant breeding. Um, maybe give a little bit of a pitch on the like CRISPR side of it that we have all these new genetic breeding tools, you know, coming from Jennifer Doudna and this pioneering work that we're all familiar with, we can actually now apply that to make plant breeding more targeted and for um non polygenic traits. These are very powerful. And nutrition is actually one of those non polygenic traits.

Kumar

Let me say this back to you. So hey we have this thing that is incredibly important. Like a lot of people die from heart disease. You would think that given how important it is how much research goes into it. There's major associations globally and in the US that work on it that we've already like mapped all the things to be done. It's just it's hard work. But actually, even in our hardest problems with lots of people working on them, you have structural blind spots where people say, oh, I'm thinking about a heart disease. Well, maybe I haven't read the gold plated RCT that shows that, you know, adding potassium into your diet could actually cut it down by quite a many percentage points. And potassium, just like we iodized salt is a thing you can actually add, and you could get this one time increase. And when you then go into the literature and you're like, well, how many people are working on adding potassium to salt to stop, you know, improve global heart outcomes?

I mean, you know, I come from India and this is a huge topic in India, right? Uh, huge topic in the US. How many people, Adam, are working?

Adam

Dozens. Dozens of people. And this is a thing where we can avert two plus million deaths per year. There are only like, 60 million deaths a year. Like 2 million is a huge there. Like it's a huge chunk of that. And there's like incredible research that's been done. I think there's a silo problem. Um, one of which is like, if your job is to do the RCT or, you know, do the mechanism, or if you're a doctor, it's like, not your job to think about how we make flour or how we make salt.

Um, and I think the world is just this is the thing I've updated on in the last couple of years. The world is fundamentally slow. And it is like moving towards progress where humans accomplish incredible things. We will put potassium in our salt in the next 50 or 60 years. And like in that period of time, 100 million people might die who could have avoided that heart attack or a stroke if they had lower blood pressure from eating a better mixture of salt that better reflects like hunter gatherer diets. It's not even like salt as natural. Like we used to have way more potassium than sodium in our diets. It's actually a modern dietary thing that we like flipped the ratio of sodium and potassium, which leads to higher blood pressure. So yeah, this is and I feel it's across many things. And like my job in some sense Kumar is big and easy. And this is like I'm interested in like is it easy? Like there are big and easy things that you can find as part of kind of my algorithm.

So I think this is really interesting and like let's just pull on this thread, which is that people walk around with the assumption that if it was big and important, like lots of people working on it, because we have large institutions and others. And I think one thing that I'm sort of curious around is like, you start in energy and climate, and now you're talking to me about adding potassium to salt.

Yeah.

Kumar

There's something maybe this is like the Adam Goff production function, but like, what is it about your ability to nerd out and spot these holes in domains that supposedly have a lot of experts whose day job it is to think about cardiovascular disease? You know, because most people, if you did the two by two of big and, you know, big, small, hard, easy, they would say like look like - big and easy. Maybe the only things that are in there are things that are like, uh, not actually easy. Like you get into it and it's like politically, you know, like carbon tax, like, oh, the math works. But it's like, no, politically that is very hard. So like, tell me, what is it that allowed you to start to first notice this thing, and then how you then start to find it. Because I presume you're an interloper in every one of these topics when you first show up.

Adam

Um, I do - maybe a couple of different answers here. One of which is if you're taking the task of something is going to happen anyway. People - people who are smarter than you and more expert than you are working on it. But can you make it happen faster?

Kumar

Mhm.

Adam

Right. You're not. And we're not saying that there aren't, this isn't happening. You're saying no. The pace at which this happens actually matters to me a lot. Um, that if we can increase incomes faster or commercialize the technology faster, or reduce mortality faster, like the year, the lag time of five years or 15 years or a couple of months, the same way we all followed this with the mRNA vaccine, with Covid, the like, actually, the speed that that ready matters to you a lot, even if Moderna or Pfizer was going to get there anyway, we care about that.

That is true across a lot of different things. I think you have like constraint issues, but like a lot of what one does as an interloper, if your production function is as an interloper, is you are operating in gaps, you know you experts know more than you do. There's people thinking about this all day, every day who are smarter than you. And this is kind of their only thing, but they normally have some constraints. So a lot of what you're doing is you go talk to the smartest people who have been working on this for decades, and it's their life's work. And like, what are their constraints? Sometimes they're not allowed to take the research and like go talk to policymakers about it.

It's like not their job. They don't know how to do it, or they have regional constraints or, you know, there's I think a lot of the gaps in the world are between, like foundations and nonprofits and companies and universities, uh, there's like gaps that pull between these things and coordinating those functions that like, don't happen, I think playing that integrating function. So just like if you are in the medical system and you're trying to get care of yourself, you quickly realize that nobody's integrating your care picture for you. Like you have to talk to, like all the different specialists, and you yourself are like you are your head coach, right, of trying to integrate all those inputs.

And that's true in making change in the world, too. So I think the interloper is kind of playing that. Um, pulling all of the threads together. Um, and I think there's a, a lot of what we're doing in philanthropy here is that. And in the nonprofit sector, there isn't a financial motive. Like, part of the like, genius of capitalism is you're like, no, there's just a lot of distributed incentive to make the profitable thing happen sooner.

And the world - like, people around the world want to do good. We want to improve health spans and improve economic growth. But like you don't have, there's a lot of areas where you don't have that same like brutal, greedy, greedy incentive and things move slow.

Kumar

You know, part of the goal for these things is to collect these pearls of wisdom. So one was, you know, work with really amazing people, but this is another good one, which is, you know, sometimes experts in a domain don't think enough about speed. Like, that's not their job to be like, okay - like, the rate of change is this much. It takes us 15 years to do a vaccine. You know, the Dan Wattendorf question in 2011 when he pitched to DARPA, which is could we build a vaccine in under a year and then like that by itself, you know, is like this huge thing. Like, can we do this thing that we have or that we care about, but really cut down the time?

It's probably a totally different set of constraints that they don't spend a lot of their day thinking about.

Adam

There's less glory too - like in some sense, like you're the you're this is not your we're not taking ideas that are our ideas. You're taking someone else's work and speeding it up. And like, they'll get the credit and like, it's kind of this, uh, that kind of role. That's part of it. Maybe another part of the recipe here is to find the big and easy, you have to look across dozens of things. Like if you know that we have like have a filtering function of like, look at everything that's big. Like, um. It's hard to know. I think my intuitions of what is going to be easy for us. Hard or movable or not, they get better every year. But I think fundamentally, my improvement in them is not trusting them on the offset.

Like, hypertension, oh, what could I possibly do on hypertension? Like, everyone thinks about heart disease. Like, no, don't trust. Like go check, go ask. There's people who know you can go ask them and they will tell you like, no, no, we're on this. Or like, no, the research is there. We've done the RCT and they're it's not anybody's job to make this happen faster. Um, and then just you could that takes a couple hours. And so you can actually turn through, um, kind of like a VC does on, you know, looking at lots and lots of opportunities. The philanthropist or nonprofits can scan through dozens of potentially big or things that you know are big, and you're not sure if they're easy, right.

And, uh, and AI helps with that. I think this is also, I think where kind of AI fits in is it makes that scanning process of the non tacit knowledge, the things that are written down and that you can research and analyze a lot easier so you can be more thorough and then you can use that to, you know, optimize your human time of the 50 hours a week or so you have to go talk to people and kind of get the get the scoop on what's actually happening.

Kumar

Let's pull on that thread, because I feel like one thing that you spend a lot of time thinking about is not just, you know, hey, I figured out this way of working like I can - don't have to just live within my zone of wherever I started my career. I'm going to keep myself open to getting curious and figuring out other things. But then you've also thought about, okay, well, actually, like there might be hundreds more of these big and easy…

Adam

Yeah.

Kumar

…dots, but to traverse that space, that's a big space. So Adam's ability to read and then make phone calls is like time bound. So you've then thought about, oh, well, like I'm going to figure out what is my workflow, but then figure out all the ways to help, whether it's work as part of Renaissance philanthropy and think about building a larger team, whether it's using AI agents and AI tools that accelerate -

But say a little bit about that, which is like once you figure out there's something interesting there, which is like not just getting into your groove, but then saying, okay, how do I like build more things like can even accelerate in that direction.

Adam

I think there's a couple of things I believe here. One is like build on strengths. It's like how I manage myself and try and manage people I work with is like, what are the things that you are amazing at? And like, are you doing them enough? And like, have you improved the things you're amazing at enough and like compensating for weaknesses but not like, oh, I'm like much weaker at talent networking, but like Renaissance Philanthropy is like one of the best in the world at like finding and connecting talent to each other to get the right people in a problem.

And like, now I work there and I kind of get the benefits of that network when it's not something that I would naturally build. And I work with you and I work with Parth and Ronit and people who are really incredible at that - that side of it. And then if I am very good at being an interloper and scanning thousands and thousands of ideas, how do I build on that strength, both making sure it is my job to do that a lot. And I think with AI we've been able to industrialize or systematize the input. If previously myself and a lot of us used to have all these tabs where you'd like be running down a couple different ideas like Google searching, and you'd be like clicking on papers and reading the abstracts, which would you'd follow that trace and like, how would we decide which things to search?

It's like, well, you like have intuitions that come from the people you talk to and the blogs you read, and you're like your whole life. And it like leads you to have some intuitions. And I'm like, we can do better than that now. Like, we can just be more systematic. That was like, um, previously it wasn't possible to read 5 million papers in nutrition and use that to decide where to, like, spend a cycle.

And it's like, no, you can do that now. Like, you just can set up, um, kind of a horizontal, parallel set of agents who will go and literally, like we did this, read through 5 million nutrition papers and run some simple calculations on them that don't have human judgment. But like, is this proven? How many people would help if it worked? Like, what's the next step? Run a couple simple questions and then that can feed into that same human process. Like you're doing the same thing of like you're reading the evidence, trying to make sense of it. You're reaching out to the experts. Most of the ideas you have are bad. You run through a lot of them, and maybe two out of 20 are good.

But the input to that is, instead of it being my intuitions or what a colleague at the lunch table told me can be like, uh, grabbing, filtering all of human knowledge across languages.

Kumar

What I like about that is just, you know, part of I get the advantage is just getting to see you work. And I think you're like a real outlier in being just, like, actively curious around both finding tools and building tools. Like this AI journey you've been on over the past, I would say 18 months. You're not an AI native, you know. It's not like…

Adam

I don't know how to code, you know.

Kumar

But like, you were like, huh? I wonder if this tooling would give me leverage and then you just sort of, like, testing it and kept building out until, like, at this point, I think it's transformed your workflow. Like it's no longer like a dabble. And so there's something I think powerful around that. You don't have to just have curiosity about the world and the problems to solve. You can also be curious about how to keep leveling up -

Adam

Right.

Kumar

- you know, like you're saying like eat, build, blend into strengths, work with complementary inputs, but then like how to leverage tools and technologies. I mean, very few people do all three of those things well, which is like understand those three vectors.

Adam

I think also, what do you do that compounds over time? Um, I think something I thought a lot about like ten years ago, which I think was right, is that reading is compounding. Um, and it compounds over, like if you just have enough time to read different things, like not clear, why did you need to read that Substack about finance? You don't work in finance, but like it does compound your like context and knowledge of the world over time. I think a meta level of that of like, how do you know what to read? Like what are the inputs of what you read? Is it just you subscribe to The Economist? Is it what you find on Twitter and like if you get that right, also like having the right mix of information that you then like is the buffet that you choose from every day when you're reading. And I think the tool building is similar. I think maybe it wasn't true recently where like you couldn't build yourself custom tools. Uh, but now you can like by talking to your computer and this, like, magical year that we live in.

Um, and that compounds both. The tools are compounding. They help, you know, your daily work, whatever that may be, and the knowledge of how to customize your tools. 00:22:54.830 — Tacit Knowledge

Kumar

I always ask, you know, is there like a piece of tacit knowledge that you often keep coming back to? Either it like drives your own work, you give it as advice to people, or it's something you yourself are trying to like, get, you know, get sharper on. It's like a thing you want to strive for what's on your like, menu list of the pieces of tacit knowledge you keep coming back to.

Adam

Yeah, maybe I'll say a couple and you can pick one. Kumar. Uh, I mean, systematically search in a space. Uh, is one, uh, I think knowing, like, how and when to go pull expertise from the world and, uh, having a low bar to, like, quickly reaching out to people. Um, are three. The fourth. I'm not trying to like something about like, how do you ask questions outside of your expertise.So those are four - which one. Which one should we dive into?

Kumar

Let's do good questions.

Adam

That's the hardest one.

Kumar

Do you think that this is like. Yeah. Because I think the the role of the interloper is good questions, which is that experts get asked a certain type of question. And then if you can actually leverage the expertise to have them answer questions that, you know, like the speed question, the what are your deep bottlenecks question, you know, what are your - like getting that intelligence out of them?

I mean, it's like the theme of the podcast itself. Like that's the tacit - that, you know, often those are not written down, but like, question asking, is this like meta skill.

Adam

There's a couple of things I'm trying to do. Um, one is you want you want to get on like, we framing and like, be like joint problem solving. I think it's always just really helpful. Like, getting to, like, what is some person's active edge of like, oh, if they were talking to a colleague, of like, here's where we're at. We're trying to figure out this thing or that thing. We don't know if that works, if this and that. Like, here's where we're stuck. Like getting the conversations into that active edge, like, let's, you know, like how someone actually works and what they're actually thinking about rather than, like in the amount of lecture mode where it's like, right, here's here's the thing that I do like, um, I think another is you both want to, like, be honest that you are not the PhD in biochemistry who actually knows their field, but I kind of want them to talk to me like they are anyway. It's like, no, you aren't an expert in the thing, but like, just act like I am. And it is just like, let the words wash over you.

Um, um, that's a piece. And then you'll. So you want to do some of that. And then I think finding like, what are the do you want to find the constraints within their area of expertise. And then you pull them outside of it and you're like, okay, great. But like what about the policy angle or like a bunch of this is but what if your constraints were removed? Like if you run this across a couple of different areas. Like if you did have more money, or if there wasn't that regulation in the way, or if you did have a couple more post-docs or a couple more people, or if you could work in that other country and like, you kind of run through the like, which of these constraints, if they moved and like, it is not their job to remove those constraints.

They're doing their job, but it's our job to remove the constraint.

Kumar

I find, I find like sometimes people say really surprising things like, okay, what if you had a little bit more money or you had a few more people and they're like, oh, then I would do this. And it's like so incredibly valuable. And you're like, wait a minute. So what stands between you and doing this? And it's like just a - and I'm like, well, we could help you get that money. And then they're like, oh, well, maybe I should write this down. You know.

Adam

Yeah. I feel like I also hold like two somewhat or like not opposing beliefs, but both that the world is really, really complicated. And like, the more you understand something, the more you realize your own ignorance. And also you should kind of just go around and assume that you can understand it and ask questions like you will end up with a mechanistic understanding. And like both of those things are true, that both are like, no, if you ask a chained why? If you're like, well, like, why does that reduce blood pressure? Like, why does that cause heart attacks like a couple levels down? You'll be like, oh man, I have no idea how blood works. Like you thought you knew how blood works. You really, really don't. Um, and that's like, kind of respect for both expertise and, like, you know, the ignorance of human knowledge of, like, the world is really complicated, especially, you know, um, human systems are complicated.

Kumar

But do you think it's like a do you think it's like a J curve where you get smarter so suddenly you're like, I don't know anything. But then actually, as you start to answer some questions, you start to find like, there's actually these structural holes where you can actually provide a ton of value because -

Adam

I think the J curve has shaped the other way where you don't know a lot about it and you're like, oh, this one's actually kind of simple. Uh, actually, no. I just think the more you know, the more you feel like you don't know. I think maybe you have a you the unknown unknowns go down.

Kumar

But but then I want you to pull on this thread, which is your actual career, is you like when I talk to you… I bumped into Adam in our we're having lunch and I'm like, Adam, what are five ideas you’re excited about? And every six month increment we've known each other. The variation of ideas you're interested in has only gotten wider.

Adam

Yeah.

Kumar

So on one level, like, the world is a complex place, but you are like, traversing more and more of it into nerdier and nerdier corners. Like, it's not like your thesis is like, boiled down to like a single thing.

Adam

You’re saying I'm getting nerdier Kumar? That's not good.

Kumar

You know? You're like, come on, can I tell you about the other AI, the artificial insemination of cows? You know.

Adam

I think maybe a thing here is like, you want to understand uncertainty or, like, dive into it, not because it's going to persuade you not to act. It's just like in order to act in uncertainty, you have to know what is uncertain. And so the like, awareness of like all the stuff we don't know, I mean, one take to that could be like, we can't possibly like make investments or, you know, choose where to focus our time or direct human talent when like these areas, like we really don't know how X works. We don't have a fundamental understanding of the brain. This or like we don't even know enough about how the economy and this place works and like, um, – but like we are stuck making decision making uncertainty. Right. And I think like, that's the game. Like that's the thing that we do across, uh, like, you want to know enough to know where the risks are, where your known unknowns are.

And, um, at least have looked for the unknown unknowns so that you can maybe reduce them. Um, but I think, you know, it's like risk adjusted of, like, oh, the more risk you have, you should, like, discount your actions. But often things that are really uncertain if they work, there's this huge upside. Um,

Kumar

Right.

Adam

So, um, I'm a little bit of a dilettante, so I think I'm always just like, oh, what's the what's the next thing? 00:29:30.930 — Asks and Offers We always close with asks and offers, so I know there's a bunch of stuff you're working on, some of what you you all have been putting out. Yeah.

Kumar

What are if folks want to get smarter on this. Like, how do we find more things in this, uh, big and easy box? Like, what are ways they can get smarter on it, either on the tools or ways of thinking or others? Uh, or what are things you'd love for people to be reaching out or what are you sort of asked for the world?

Adam

Yeah. Asks and offers. Think if someone wants to run the same search function we do, you know, look at the top 30 or 40 things that kill people and see if there's ways you can reduce those. Or look at, um, top, uh, places where people need more income or kind of suffering with low resources and like, what are ways you could plausibly double their incomes and think through export manufacturing or think through like and just kind of go through the list and see what's happening.

That's one search function. Another ask would be, I have this thesis around there being really socially valuable technologies that are stuck because they're not profitable and or not that profitable. They're like, only a little bit profitable. But there's this huge social return. Um, and that, like, commercialization in general in the US is, like, slow. Like, we're better at the research and innovation than we are at the pulling it to market quickly. Um, and so people should go look for them, like, how do we like - a lot of they're published, the patents are published, papers are published, like going out and harvesting the existing tree of both intervention knowledge and technical knowledge, with kind of an eye towards where there's high social returns.

Kumar

Adam, it's great to have you on. Uh, I think there's tons that you all are doing and you're doing, that, I think kind of charts a new way for like, the generalist expert, you know, like, how do you take a generalized set of skills and then apply them to a lot of expert problems. So I hope it like inspires a bunch of people to get going on eating more of this like to do list that we're collectively building.

Adam

Yeah, I hope so too.

Kumar

Awesome. Thanks for joining.

Adam

Yeah. Thanks Kumar. Always a pleasure. 00:31:44.060 — Outro

Kumar

All right everybody. So that was our conversation with Adam Goff. I have to say that like I have known Adam now for many years. Adam is like one of those people that continues to surprise in just how both productive he is, but just how much he keeps figuring out new ways to be even more productive. You know, we talked about a little bit about this in the conversation, but Adam is the one who has been the fastest adopter of AI as a productive use in his workflows in ways that are, like, quite mind blowing.

He, you know, he said, okay, well, if I should be finding more of these big problems to work on, how do I use these AI tools to generate a million ideas and then to subdivide those million ideas to a subset of tractable ideas. And oh. This piece of it doesn't work that well, but this piece does. And as the tools have gotten better and the models have come out, he keeps finding like sharper and sharper use cases.

And then his energy around it has had this infectious impact on the team, where now we're building a lot of tools across the team that are inspired by Adam as the first use case. Like he's not an AI native, he he built his career doing all this stuff by hand and yet has been driving in this area. So that level of like active curiosity and then also a systematic effort to find more of these things, I just think is like, just gives me a lot of both inspiration, but also a sense of like how we can all both figure out our groove, but then say, how do I do even more?

There's a ton to learn from Adam on both the problems you find interesting, but the fact that his sort of generalist attitude has actually given him this superpower of just being able to show up in lots of domains and be useful, and can be like a blueprint for all of us, for how we build a better to do list and move faster on it. So if you want to follow Adam, um, he publishes on our Substack at Renaissance Philanthropy, so you can follow all of it on our Substack and also on our LinkedIn and X account. And, uh, I hope you follow his request, which is, you know, pick some of these big things to drive, uh, human livelihoods or human health and think about, are there some other leverage areas and where are places where you can help?

Thanks again. Thanks for listening to this latest episode of Tacit Knowledge, hosted by me, Kumar Garg and produced by All Together Now for Renaissance Philanthropy. Find out more about our guest and all of our work at renaissancephilanthropy.org. Until next time.